{"id":197,"date":"2007-10-18T23:07:55","date_gmt":"2007-10-18T23:07:55","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/54.229.91.100\/libraryandarts\/library\/ehistory\/?p=197"},"modified":"2024-06-17T15:43:23","modified_gmt":"2024-06-17T14:43:23","slug":"irish-civil-war-the-burning-of-palmerstown-house-29-jan-1923-claim-for-compensation","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/kildarelibraries.ie\/ehistory\/irish-civil-war-the-burning-of-palmerstown-house-29-jan-1923-claim-for-compensation\/","title":{"rendered":"Compensation Claim For Palmerstown House (1925)"},"content":{"rendered":"
Leinster Leader 12 December 1925<\/em><\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
THE BURNING OF PALMERSTOWN HOUSE.<\/strong><\/u><\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
CLAIM FOR COMPENSATION.<\/u><\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
ECHO OF CIVIL WAR.<\/u><\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
LORD MAYO\u2019S VIVID DESCRIPTION.<\/u><\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
At the Naas Circuit Court on Saturday before Judge Doyle K. C. the claim was heard of Senator The Right Hon. the Earl of Mayo for compensation for the burning of Palmerstown House on January 29th, 1923.<\/div>\n
On the date in question it will be remembered a party of men entered Palmerstown House and proceeded to sprinkle petrol on the furniture.\u00a0In a few minutes the entire building was in flames and was completely gutted before any attempt at extinction could prove effective.\u00a0Lord May who with Lady Mayo were staying at Palmerstown House at the time was, together with members of his staff, held up at the point of the revolver while the work of destruction was carried out.\u00a0In the course of his evidence Lord Mayo paid a high tribute to the services of his groom and members of the Free State Army on the occasion.<\/div>\n
Mr. Phelps, K.C., and Mr. Meyers, B.L. (instructed by Messrs. White and White) for applicant ; Mr. Lupton, K. C., and Mr. Sheehy, B.L., (instructed by Mr. R. Brown, State solr.) for the State.<\/div>\n
Counsel for the applicant having described in detail the dimensions and architectural style of Palmerstown House as it existed before the burning, said that an agreement had been reached with the State that the amount of compensation for furniture be fixed at \u00a315,000.\u00a0If, he went on, they were going to make a proper reconstruction it would be necessary to use Rosenallis standstone and that would involve extra expense by reason of the fact that they would have to go to the quarry where the stone was originally got.\u00a0What they aimed at was the restoration of a house worthy of the occupants, and not more extravagant or better than the one which was destroyed.\u00a0Mr. Orpen had prepared plans of the necessary reconstruction and had submitted these plans to Mr. Clayton and Mr. Clayton had submitted the bill of quantities.\u00a0Messrs. Harvey and McLoughlin had the quantities priced and had duly forwarded an estimate for reconstruction and their actual figure was \u00a335,128 4s 6d.\u00a0Over and above that, of course, there were other items which would amount to about \u00a33,000.\u00a0There were, firstly, the architects\u2019 fees of 5 per cent. and travelling expenses, fees of building and quantity surveyors and clerk of works.\u00a0There should also be added a sum of \u00a3300 which Lord Mayo had expended in removal of debris and which in the ordinary course of events would go into the bill for reconstruction.\u00a0The total cost, therefore, of reconstruction would be \u00a338,378 6s 2d.<\/div>\n
Lord Mayo giving evidence said-I am the owner of Palmerstown House.\u00a0I have lived my life there since I became entitled to it.\u00a0The original building was finished in 1877.\u00a0The house was lived in by my mother before that in order to superintend the finishing of the interior.\u00a0I and my family have always used it as a residence and were using it on January 29th as a residence.<\/div>\n
Mr. Phelps: Is it your wish to have it reconstructed on the lines I have explained to his Lordship?<\/div>\n
Lord Mayo: Yes.<\/div>\n
Mr. Phelps: Would you describe to the court exactly in your own words what occurred about 10.20 on the night of the 29th January, 1923?<\/div>\n
Lord Mayo: Two lads came to the front door and knocked.\u00a0The door was opened by my butler.\u00a0One of them made a snatch at his watch chain.\u00a0The men were disguised.\u00a0The butler shut the door and came and reported to me that there were two men outside looking for me.\u00a0The postman arrived from Naas shortly afterwards and came to deliver the letters at the back door.\u00a0I guessed what was up and I ordered the back door to be locked.\u00a0That was not done.\u00a0I then went upstairs for a moment and when I came down the butler informed me that the two men had entered the house and said they were going to burn it.\u00a0As I had put out the light I asked to have it re-lit so that I could see these two men.\u00a0One of them appeared to be disguised and I doubt if he were armed.\u00a0The other man was fully armed with a service rifle.\u00a0He covered him and me while this individual spoke to me.\u00a0Lady Mayo then came out of the drawing room and this man was who was covered by the armed man said, \u201cLord Mayo, I believe is a Senator?\u201d\u00a0Her ladyship said, \u201cYes,\u201d and then she went back to the drawing-room.\u00a0The man then said, \u201cWe have come to burn the house.\u201d\u00a0I said, \u201cSurely you would not burn this house full of beautiful things?\u201d and he said, \u201cWe have our orders, my lord.\u201d\u00a0I then said, \u201cAre you going to shoot me?\u201d and he replied \u201cNo, my lord: we are not going to shoot you, but we have our orders to burn the building.\u201d\u00a0\u201cI suppose at all events you will give me twenty minutes for the servants and ourselves to get some wearing apparel while the house is burning?\u201d\u00a0He said he would.\u00a0At the end of twenty minutes the place was set on fire.\u00a0I managed to save pictures that are mentioned in the details of the contents, including three Sir Joshua\u2019s, two Titian\u2019s and most of my hunting clothes.\u00a0By that time the incendiaries had entered the dining-room and saturated the thick carpet with petrol and the room was in blazes in a moment.\u00a0I went and opened the door of the dining-room and I found it a flaming furnace.\u00a0Nobody has any conception of the fumes from that room-I shall never forget it.\u00a0I didn\u2019t get my throat right for 18 months afterwards.\u00a0I shut the door and returned to the back hall.\u00a0There was not a soul there, all had gone outside.\u00a0Then we were ordered outside ourselves.\u00a0We went to the garage where we were held up by two raiders.\u00a0One of the men had an automatic which had the catch down-I asked him to put it up in case a shot would go off- the other had a revolver.\u00a0The house was then beginning to blaze.<\/div>\n
I went into the house again and attempted with a hand-pump to extinguish the fire in the hall but the raiders had done the job excessively well, because not only did they use petrol but also htose little pastiles which the Germans used during the war and which are impossible to put out with anything whatsoever.\u00a0It is only right to say, declared his lordship, that the raiders were excessively polite.<\/div>\n
By this time I thought it better to call some of my men up.\u00a0My groom accompanied me to my study which contained important private papers as well as all the bills of the old house. Every scrap that was in the room was saved by myself and my groom, and also with the help of four very fine looking Free State soldiers who, when they saw the glare in the sky, motored as hard as they could from Newbridge barracks.\u00a0Things were so bad that I was giving up hopes of saving a piece of furniture that was given to me as a wedding present when my groom said he would fetch it.\u00a0The soldiers knocked the casement out of the window, which was a rather dangerous operation considering that the rifles were loaded and some of them had the catches down.\u00a0I have been a soldier six years myself and I told them to put up the catches.\u00a0The casing was knocked out and eight minutes afterwards my groom left the room having secured the article.\u00a0A moment later the ceiling fell in and the room was in flames.\u00a0That is the whole story of what occurred that night.<\/div>\n

<\/p>\n

Replying to Counsel, withness said it was a very stormy and wet night.\u00a0A South-westerly gale was blowing.\u00a0The old house was very exposed, situated almost like a lighthouse on top of a hill.\u00a0One could imagine the extreme heat that came from it when the fire was at its height: \u201cThat is all I have to say in the matter,\u201d declared the witness.\u201d\u00a0I know perfectly well who was engaged locally in burning my house.\u2019<\/div>\n
Mr. Phelps: Did you employ Mr. Orpen to come down? Yes.<\/div>\n
He had been your guest before?\u00a0Yes.<\/div>\n
All the servants\u2019 accommodation was contained overhead?\u00a0Yes.\u00a0The house also contained rooms for my brothers and sisters before I was married and before they went away into the world.<\/div>\n
By taking away the old roof and substituting therefore a flat roof you are depriving yourself of all this accommodation?\u00a0Yes.<\/div>\n
Richard Orpen deposed in reply to Counsel, that he knew Palmerstown house very well.\u00a0He prepared the plans for the new building, and they were in every way satisfactory and economical.\u00a0He took into consideration the fact that they would be using the old walls.\u00a0The red marks on his plans indicated those walls that would have to be newly constructed.\u00a0Most damage had been sustained by windows, cornices and stonework.\u00a0The interior walls which were lined with brick, had not suffered as much.\u00a0He had provided for a reinforced concrete roof for the whole building and had submitted detailed plans to the Quantity Surveyor.<\/div>\n
Cross-examined:\u00a0Witness said his plans provided for a house of the most up-to-date character, embodying all the most recent improvements in building.\u00a0The house would be exactly on the lines of the old building except for the roof.\u00a0The concrete roof was based on the most modern pattern, and its upkeep would be much less than the original one built in 1877.<\/div>\n
Judge:\u00a0I am always in doubt in these cases on one point.\u00a0Will the new building as planned be less valuable than the original building?<\/div>\n
Witness said the building would be less valuable in so much as it would contain less accommodation.<\/div>\n
Judge:\u00a0I cannot attach a full reinstatement condition to a building less valuable than the original building.<\/div>\n
Mr. J Clayton stated he had been acting as a Quantity Surveyor in connection with a number of claims in Sackville St., on behalf of the State.\u00a0He had prepared the Bill of Quantities for the work of reconstructing this house.\u00a0His quantities were prepared in accordance with the plans submitted.\u00a0He had provided, inter alia, for the particular limestone from Rosenallis.\u00a0He had calculated that the extra cost of putting up the old roof would be \u00a38,500.\u00a0That roof contained 13 bedrooms and had suitable accommodation for guests.<\/div>\n
Judge:\u00a0Will the concrete roof set off against this \u00a38,500?<\/div>\n
Witness:\u00a0No.<\/div>\n
Continuing witness \u00a0aid he got instruction from Messrs Orpen to draw up the Bill of Quantities and he submitted them to Messrs. Harvey and McLoughlin.<\/div>\n
Mr. Phelps:\u00a0Can you form any opinion of the prices?\u00a0Yes, I am quite sure Messrs. McLoughlin and Harvey have priced them.<\/div>\n
Cross-examined by Mr. Lupton: I expect you have no doubt the new building is of a character suitable to the neighbourhood?\u00a0Yes.<\/div>\n
And the market value would be as good as the old house?\u00a0I don\u2019t go into market values.<\/div>\n
Do you think the new building will be less valuable than the old?\u00a0Yes.<\/div>\n
John Cleary deposed he was employed by the firm of Messrs, Harvey and O\u2019Loughlin.\u00a0This Bill of Quantities drawn up by Mr. Clayton came to him for pricing.\u00a0He submitted that these prices were fair, reasonable and proper and as far as he could estimate they were the current prices put upon them by builders in his position.\u00a0The total to complete the house would be \u00a335, 128.<\/div>\n
Mr. Lupton, cross-examining:\u00a0When you prepared the plans you were not told they were on a competitive basis?\u00a0They were not prepared on a competitive basis, but they were prepared on the basis of current prices.<\/div>\n
Mr. Judd, Valuer, said he thought the old house was more valuable than what the new would be.<\/div>\n
For the state, Mr. John Good swore that he was instructed to make an estimate for the building of Palmerstown House and received for that purpose a copy of the Bill of Quantities with no prices.\u00a0He was not aware of the individual items on the tender of Messrs. Mcloughlin and Harvey.\u00a0Witness visited Palmerstown House on Friday and made an estimate of the prices on the basis of the present day prices and was prepared to carry out the building under Mr. Orpen\u2019s directions on the basis of that tender.\u00a0His gross total which would include Architects\u2019 Litographers, Quantity Surveyors\u2019 and Clerk of Works fees would be \u00a339,902.<\/div>\n
Mr. Frederick Hayes gave evidence that on behalf of the Government he made an assessment as to what he thought the proper prices for the reconstruction of the house would be. He made two assessments, his original being \u00a329,600, and subsequent one, \u00a331,401.\u00a0He said certain items in the estimate of McLoughlin and Harvey\u2019s were not contained in the original building.<\/div>\n
Mr. T. Byrne said he was principal architect for the Board of Works.\u00a0He thought a 2 \u00bd per cent deduction from the Assessments made by the Board of Works, was reasonable in the case of a new building because the outlav with the upkeep and maintenance with the building as restored would be less for a period of years than was the case before the reconstruction.<\/div>\n
This concluded the evidence of value.<\/div>\n
His Lordship said he would adjourn the further hearing of the claim until Tuesday, when he would make his award.<\/div>\n
Giving judgment on Tuesday, his Lordship said:-The circumstances out of which this claim arises are briefly stated in the declaration made by the applicant on 8th Mary, 1923, and were briefly detailed in this court on Saturday last.\u00a0The declaration runs as follows-\u201cOn Monday, the 29th January, 1923, a number of armed persons surrounded the house and premises, ordered out the inhabitants and maliciously set fire to the building which was completely gutted and the contents destroyed.\u00a0The evidence shows that the reason assigned for this destruction by those who carried it out was the fact that the applicant held the office of Senator in the Constitution of the Irish Free State.<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
The claim naturally falls into two parts-(1) for the buildings, and (2) for the contents.<\/div>\n
The claim for the contents has been arranged between the representatives of the State and of the applicant at the sum of \u00a315,000 which will form portion of this decree.<\/div>\n
Before dealing with the figures of the claim arising out of the destruction of the building, it is right to draw attention to the fact that the applicant is not claiming as he might have claimed, the restoration of his former house.\u00a0He has limited his claims to the cost of the erection of a substituted and much less expensive house.\u00a0A house which will still be as is plain from Mr. Orpen\u2019s plans, a stately residence, but one the erection of which will cost less by many thousands than the reinstatement of the original would have cost. By this patriotic action the applicant has relieved the State from a very large sum of money.<\/div>\n
In return for this relief given to the State the applicant is entitled to be met as he has been met, with every consideration by the representatives of the State.\u00a0The evidence which has been submitted to me shows at once the care and the fairness with which the experts on behalf of the State have examined the claim, and shows too the moderation with which the claim itself has been prepared.<\/div>\n
In these circumstances I hold that it is the duty of the State and of the tribunal to which the State entrusts the decision of the claim, to accord to the applicant the following rights:-He must be allowed to choose his own architect, surveyors and contractors; he must be allowed to exercise, at the expense of the State, the same discretion in respect of accepting or rejecting their suggestions as to prices and otherwise, which he, acting as a reasonable and prudent man, might be expected to have exercised in that respect, if he was dealing with his own private moneys; he must not be required to accept the lowest tenders or to run any serious risk by adopting, as of necessity, the cheaper of two competing methods of working-this last observation has special reference to the \u201cbottening\u201d which was so fully observed on during the hearing of the claim.<\/div>\n
Applying these principles to the figures put before me and bearing in mind that the figures of Mr. Hayes\u2019 original and revised assessments are not the figures of a tender at all, that Mr. Hayes in fact holds, in a sense, the position of Advocatus Diaboli in regard to all contractors, both applicant and respondent, I have come to the conclusion that there are two respects and two respects only in which I should reduce the amount of the claim made for \u201ctotal building costs\u201d which stands in Mr. Cleary\u2019s revised figures at the sum of \u00a333,928.\u00a0The first reduction will be by a sum of \u00a3600 which is 50 per cent in excess of Mr. Cleary\u2019s reduction from his firm\u2019s original figure of \u00a335,128, and is intended to meet as fairly as I can meet by anticipation, the continued drop in the price of materials, which I gather to be still proceeding; the second reduction of which I have spoken will not be a formal lessening of the figures at all; it will take the form of a note or addendum to the decree which will make it clear that there are, as there always are, items and groups of items expressed in \u201cprovisional\u201d figures, and that, while these provisional figures are included in the decree, the balance or balances not required shall fall back into the coffers of the State; it is of course impossible to forecast the amount of such \u201cprovisional\u201d savings; they will in all probability be of considerable amount.<\/div>\n
This \u00a3600 reduction in the \u201ctotal building cost\u201d necessitates some minor changes in the dependent percentage figures which will now stand at the sum of \u00a32,803. \u00a0The total on this head of claim worked out at \u00a336,331 to which must be added the agreed sum of \u00a315,500 for the contents of the building, making a combined total of \u00a351,831 which will be the figure of the compensation decree.\u00a0To the sum of \u00a336,131 I add the \u201cpartial reinstatement condition\u201d which Mr. Phelps asked for and which is clearly the proper condition, having regard to the substitution of a building of a different nature from, though of the same character as, the former building.\u00a0The remaining sum of \u00a3200 is in the nature of a repayment to the applicant and is not affected by the condition.<\/div>\n
I have fully considered the suggestion of the State expert that a sum of about \u00a3600 to \u00a3800 should be deducted from the decree by reason of the fact that the new building will tend to effect a saving in upkeep on account of its newness and of its being of a more manageable nature than the former building.\u00a0I am satisfied that the provisions of section 10 (6)\u00a0(a) of the Damage to Property (Compensation) Act, 1923, make any such deduction impossible; that sub-section directs that the compensation in the present case shall be \u201cnot less than the probable cost of the erection of the substituted building;\u201d the object of the proceedings has been to ascertain the amount of that probable cost; the same sub-section excludes any deduction for increased value or appreciation such as would apply if the case fell under sub-section (4).<\/div>\n
The decree is made of course with costs and expenses.\u00a0I allow the sum of \u00a3147 claimed for expenses and I certify for 24 guineas Counsels\u2019 fees and for an additional special allowance of \u00a320 for the applicant\u2019s solicitor.<\/div>\n
The note to appear on the face of the decree will be as follows:-\u201cThis decree is to stand reduced by such portions (if any) of the contract charges, for \u201cprovisional\u201d items or group items, as are found by the applicant\u2019s architect, in the exercise of his discretion as such, not to be necessary for the completion of the work.\u201d<\/div>\n
To meet the requirements of Section 10 (1) the building now to be erected will be described in the decree as \u201cof the same residential character as the injured building but of a less costly nature.\u201d<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
[compiled and edited by Mario Corrigan; typed and edited by Breid on behalf of Cill Dara Historical Society – Kildare Town]<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n
spellings and grammar retained as in original e.g. standstone = sandstone; htose = those; withness = witness; witness\u00a0aid = witness said<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n
Fascinating article in the Leinster Leader 12 December 1925 on the compensation tribunal investigating the burning of Palmerstown House during the Irish Civil War. Lord Mayo’s testimony revealed a rather telling if unusual remark considering he knew the assailants, ‘It is only right to say, declared his lordship, that the raiders were excessively polite.’<\/em><\/strong><\/div>\n
\n

A Leinster Leader article on the actual burning of the house during the Civil War is also on E History, entitled Lord Mayo’s Beautiful Mansion in Ruins.<\/a><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Fascinating article in the Leinster Leader 12 December  1925 on the compensation tribunal investigating the burning of Palmerstown House during the Irish Civil War. Lord Mayo’s testimony revealed a rather telling if unusual remark considering he knew the assailants, ‘It is only right to say, declared his lordship, that the raiders were excessively polite.’<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

A Leinster Leader article on the actual burning of the house during the Civil War is also on E History, entitled Lord Mayo’s Beautiful Mansion in Ruins.<\/a><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":12,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[21,119],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-197","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-decade-of-centenaries","category-places"],"blocksy_meta":[],"featured_image_src":null,"featured_image_src_square":null,"author_info":{"display_name":"Kildare Local Studies","author_link":"https:\/\/kildarelibraries.ie\/ehistory\/author\/localstudies\/"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/kildarelibraries.ie\/ehistory\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/197","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/kildarelibraries.ie\/ehistory\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/kildarelibraries.ie\/ehistory\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/kildarelibraries.ie\/ehistory\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/12"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/kildarelibraries.ie\/ehistory\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=197"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/kildarelibraries.ie\/ehistory\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/197\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/kildarelibraries.ie\/ehistory\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=197"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/kildarelibraries.ie\/ehistory\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=197"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/kildarelibraries.ie\/ehistory\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=197"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}